Thursday, March 18, 2010

Guenon's Conviction to Tradition

Sati Shankar
The Perennis we are seeking, assimilates all, religions came later like Gods, I wonder why Rene Guenon changed to Islam, (like usual conversions from one camp to other) if he really trusted his own convictions to Tradition,for which he is known to be one of initiators, even it does not come to my mind I or AKC are hindu,or muslim or Christian or..., we are riding over undercurrent which pervades All.
Does it mean he compromised with his stands on Tradition, for which he has been adored?

Charles Salvo
I addressed that questions here:
Sati Shankar
@CS, beautiful, thanks for the link, can I quote a few lines it here?
Charles Salvo
Of course.

Sati Shankar
Quoted for convenience from @CS link above:

Guenon offers this explanation, apparently in light of his own seeming exterior conversion: “those who, for reasons of an esoteric an initiatic order, adopt a traditional form different form that to which they would seem to be linked by their origin [do this] either because their native tradition provides them with not possibility of an esoteric order, or because their chose tradition give them a foundation that is more appropriate to their nature, and consequently more favorable to their spiritual work.”

“Contrary to what takes place in ‘conversion’, nothing here implies the attribution of the superiority of one traditional form over another. It is merely a question of what one might call reasons of spiritual expediency, which is altogether different from simple individual ‘preference’.”

So we see that for the elite, it is the intellectual conversion that is important. The outer form is secondary. Therefore, the various attempts to recover lost forms for their own sake or to critique living forms based solely on their exteriority are misguided. The criteria are these:

Is the form rich and varied enough to incorporate true metaphysical teachings?
Is the exterior form able to capture the allegiance of the general population, given their various capacities to understand?
Does the exterior form provide a safe haven within which the elite can accomplish their tasks?

Ismail Radpour
When some perennialists such as Schuon or Guenon encounter impossoblity of esoterism in Christianity, they decide to choose either Sufism and Islam or Vedanta and Hinduism as the first and the last religions. But it is not possible to convert into Hinduism, for a Hindu should be born Hindu. Then they choose Islam and initiate into Sufism.
40 minutes ago ·

Sati Shankar
I think there is a little to add , there is no concept of conversion in Sanatan Dharma, which later named as Hinduism, Here almost every one , I stress, every one, every living being, not only Homo sapiens, is part of Sanatan, the eternality in cosmos, even if he is an atheist or follower of any sect or path, that is why it includes all and for the same reason the term "conversion"never existed in Sanatan .The Sophia Perennis pervades almost all.
The misleading term Hinduism was introduces very very late,during last millennium, while recorded evidence on Sanatan Dharma are available since arounf5000 to 6000 BC.
Even majority of Hindued do not know this drama of super grafting of term and keep on fighting and defending thoose facts whic did never have a genuine emergence.
Now you decide where did you find that to be a Hindu one has to be born in a Hindu family.

We view:
sarve bhavantu sukhinah sarve santu nirāmayā
sarve bhadrāṇi paśyantu mā kaścitdukhbhāgbhavet|

May all be happy! (sukhinah) May all be free from disabilities! (niraamayaah)
May all look (pashyantu)to the good of others! May none suffer from sorrow! (duhkha)

All means ALL without any reason.withour any calculation and without any politics.
21 minutes ago ·

Sati Shankar
Another issues which I wish we must address, whom constitutes the tradition? Is is an anthropological specialty?

Sati Shankar
Just have a look on one of the oldest record from human civilization:I have posted it on wall on this group with all available translations.

Rig Veda(10.129)" nAsadIya sUkta

nAsadAsInno sadAsIttadAnIm |
nAsIdrajo no vyomA paro yat |
kimAvarIvaH kuhakasya sharmann |
aMbhaH kimAsIdgahanaM gabhIram || 1 ||

Existence was not then, nor non-existence,
The world was not, the sky beyond was neither.
What covered the mist? Of whom was that?
What was in the depths of darkness thick?

Beginning , from there has been an eternal tradition the Perennis can we limit it to anthropomorphism?

When viewed and understood, all the secondary..tertiary....factions start realizing their own place for themselves.

Sati Shankar
@IR esoterism in Christianity,
Impossibility of esoterism in Christianity, as you pointed out is the result of the controversy between St Augustine & Meister Eckhart, the later being in spiritual tradition but given the State and Church Powers, St. Augustine had heavier weight, and esoterism in Christianity got back seat. It has a recorded history...
I can quote a Dominican Priest who confesses that how he did not hear a singe word on Eckhart during his Christian priesthood in Dominica, despite the fact the Echkart him self belonged to the same place. The priest later took abode in Buddhism. So religious camps too, have been prone to powers and implications thereof.

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